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Author Topic:   .40 Carry load?
FALCON
Member
posted 02-06-2002 04:19     Click Here to See the Profile for FALCON   Click Here to Email FALCON     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have taken to carrying a Glock23 and I was wondering what load you on "the sharp end" carry in this caliber.I currently use Hyrashock but am open to change.

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nyeti
Member
posted 02-06-2002 05:24     Click Here to See the Profile for nyeti     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I usually carry Winchester 180gr. SXT's; however, any of the top of the line 180gr. loads should do well. Stay away from the lightweight fast stuff, and stick with the heavy loads driven at a reasonable velocity.

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Road Dog
Novice
posted 02-06-2002 09:33     Click Here to See the Profile for Road Dog   Click Here to Email Road Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello

I found some Winchester USA (white box) 40 S&W 180 GR. JHP, Personal Protection (USA40JHP), in 50 round boxes, for $11.99. It looks like regular W-W 180gr JHP to me. BTW, Winchester is also making a 147gr 9mm JHP in the USA line(USA9JHP2), and a 230gr 45 JHP (USA45JHP).
This seems like an excellent price. Do any forum members have any experience with or an opinion on this round?
I like the idea of shooting a carry load alot, and this price would sure make it possible. Thanks,

Dave

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charlesfmason
Novice
posted 02-06-2002 15:36     Click Here to See the Profile for charlesfmason   Click Here to Email charlesfmason     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Go to pistolsmith.com for a detailed discussion of the Winchester White Box JHP loads in .40 and .45. General consensus was positive.

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DocGKR
Member
posted 02-06-2002 16:28     Click Here to See the Profile for DocGKR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FWIW, most of the online firearms forums and websites are a waste of time and bandwidth, as they offer misinformation and seem to be inhabited by close minded individuals with significant problems assimilating factual data vs. fantasy hype and hyperbole. Far too much time is wasted repeatedly regurgitating the same erroneous information on topics where facts are well known. Why waste your time there?

You have better alternatives--read all the back issues of the IWBA journal, read the FBI FTU paper written by Urey Patrick entitled "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness" as it is absolutely accurate and is available several places online (try Shawn Dodson’s or David DiFabio’s websites), do a MEDLINE search and read all of the papers by Martin L. Fackler as he is the progenitor of modern wound ballistic research, read chapters II & XVI in “Emergency War Surgery: Second United States Revision of the Emergency War Surgery NATO Handbook” which I have seen posted online (I seem to recall that JAVAHED posted them on this forum in the Tactical Emergency Medical Services /T.E.M.S. section). Stop degenerating your brain with all of this other garbage.

Cultivate a warrior mindset, get adequate training, pick a reliable and effective weapon system, choose ammunition with acceptable terminal performance which is appropriate for your mission, then continue with more training.

The white box Winchester was state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. It is cheap. It does not generally expand when going through heavy clothing. If you plan to shoot semi-clad or naked people who are threatening your life it will be fine. Otherwise, choose more modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion.

The following .40 S&W loads seem to work well:

Fed 165 gr EFMJ (P40CSP1)
Win 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Rem 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer 180 gr JHP (53966)
Win 180 gr JHP (RA40T)

We also received some of the new Federal HST pistol ammunition and new lots of Federal Tactical pistol ammunition, both of which look promising--I will post the summary of testing results when we are finished.

[This message has been edited by DocGKR (edited 02-06-2002).]

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mdwest
Moderator
posted 02-06-2002 16:36     Click Here to See the Profile for mdwest   Click Here to Email mdwest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
im currently carrying remington 165gr. golden sabres both in my g22 and my g23..

my decision to go with the golden sabres is 100% economic..

i am provided with 500-1000 rounds of it for FREE anually

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David DiFabio
Member
posted 02-06-2002 23:49     Click Here to See the Profile for David DiFabio   Click Here to Email David DiFabio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alright! now I know who to ask for .40 caliber GS donations for the 40 test roundup....

------------------
Think, Plan, Train Be Safe.
Thanks,
David
www.ammolab.com

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shooter1201
Novice
posted 02-07-2002 00:41     Click Here to See the Profile for shooter1201   Click Here to Email shooter1201     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I carried a G22, I kept it loaded with SPEER 155 grain Gold Dots. They and the W-W 155 grain SilverTips have an excellent street record.

------------------
HEARTS and MINDS
(2 to the chest, 1 to the head)

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nyeti
Member
posted 02-07-2002 05:13     Click Here to See the Profile for nyeti     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just out of curiousity, who is having good luck with the lighter stuff. Don't take this wrong, I am just trying to find out who is using a lot of this stuff and what their results are.

------------------
He who advances is sure of heaven, he who retreats is sure of eternal damnation.

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Crimedog
Novice
posted 02-07-2002 12:09     Click Here to See the Profile for Crimedog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My agency currently issues Federal 165-grain Tactical JHP (LE40T3) for use in our Glocks. Not sure of the terminal ballistics, but it feeds reliably in our pistols and has low muzzle flash.

It all boils down to mindset,training, tactics and bullet placement.

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dano1427
Novice
posted 02-07-2002 16:24     Click Here to See the Profile for dano1427   Click Here to Email dano1427     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I, too, prefer 165gr Remington Golden Sabers...Shoot very well out of my SIG 229. Agency wise, I'm issued 180Gr Winchester Rangers, which, so far, have had excellent performance.

As for agencies not using the FBI protocol, I haven't heard anything negative about Texas DPS' use of the 357SIG, or the Secret Service's use of the 357SIG round.

Now, I'm going to escape from this thread before it degenerates into yet another velocity vs. mass debate...

--dan

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DocGKR
Member
posted 02-08-2002 01:54     Click Here to See the Profile for DocGKR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Our most recent test results from 11/8/01 on the .40 S&W Rem 165 gr JHP GS4SWWA:
Bare Gelatin: vel=1086 f/s, pen=32.7, RD=0.65”, RW=165.0 gr
Denim: vel 1080 f/s, pen 46.8, RD=0.49”, RW=163.2 gr

Unfortunately, this load does not offer robust expansion and the hollowpoint tends to get plugged, leading to a smaller expanded diameter which is less likely to rapidly incapacitate.

Let us hope that we will never have a “velocity vs. mass debate”. I do not care what velocity or weight a particular load possesses, as long as it consistently demonstrates appropriate penetration and expansion characteristics.

FWIW, the .357 SIG Speer 125 gr JHP Gold Dot performs very well in the FBI protocol testing. In fact, almost ALL well designed modern bullets in ALL of the common law enforcement pistol calibers generally offer acceptable terminal performance.

I do not know much about the Texas DPS, but I seem to recall that there has been some ammunition related problems with the USSS .357 SIG program.

Dano1427, I invite you and any other sworn law enforcement officers in California to come and participate in our testing. Observe the results yourself…

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FALCON
Member
posted 02-08-2002 03:25     Click Here to See the Profile for FALCON   Click Here to Email FALCON     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the input.Docgkr I definitely intend to research this further on my own , butthis input has proven to be a great start.the other articles you brought to my attention have been quite helpful.Thanks again too all and stay low.

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CaesarI
Novice
posted 02-11-2002 05:15     Click Here to See the Profile for CaesarI   Click Here to Email CaesarI     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Got a question on your test results with the 165gr GS. Shawn Dodson's results were different. He didn't post exact numbers on his site (he usually does), but through denim his load penetrated 16" or less, and it was going about 20fps slower than yours (3.5" gun). http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs31.htm

Of course... his test was at least a year before yours. Might wanna talk to Shawn about that.

-Morgan

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DRT
Novice
posted 03-23-2002 10:01     Click Here to See the Profile for DRT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I recently purchased a G27 for my offduty carry gun. It's loaded with Winchester 180gr RA40T. From the tests I've seen, the RAxxT loads seem to consistently offer the best penetration/expansion performance from both long/short barrels, in clothed/bare gelatin, in 9mm, 40, 45 calibers. I also like the sharper post-expansion profile of the ranger load. The gold dot load also performs acceptably but I'll give up the better 'after-glass' performance of a gold dot bullet to get the superior wounding performance of the RA40T load.
The fact that several different sources that test loads in gelatin all rank the RAxxT loads at or near the top was an important factor in my decision to use the load. Having similar resoults from several sources gives me more confidence in the data. It helps to eliminate factors of experimental error or potential "testor bias".

Now it's time to practice, train, practice, train...

[This message has been edited by DRT (edited 03-23-2002).]

[This message has been edited by DRT (edited 03-23-2002).]

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