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Author Topic:   BATF Raids Maadi-Griffin, part III
Mad Dog
Moderator
posted 06-21-2000 19:41     Click Here to See the Profile for Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am continuing this thjread from The Firing Line here, since we need to be able to discuss the ramifications of this without censorship and/or moderator interference in airing it out.
Thank you, and welcome to Tactical Forums.
Mad Dog

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Mad Dog
Moderator
posted 06-21-2000 20:12     Click Here to See the Profile for Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received this in email from an pro gun attorney. He shall remain nameless for the time being.
He read all of the stuff here and at TFL about the raid. His well thought out comments follow.
**********************************
Sir,
I read the entire post (both parts), and am left with very profound mixed feelings.

The raid seems to have been a precursor to a future (if not imminent) roundup of all currently lawful (and legal) .50BMG target rifles. The BATF agent's pejorative comment on such rifles clearly provides the proper context to their raid.

I have long opined that .50BMGs ("the Solothurns of today") are next on the cosa-non-grata list. If you don't yet own one, buy one. (At least buy a ton of API and Raufoss to feed the smart man who bought his
rifle while he could.)

HOWEVER, from the information I have on this story, Stewart was a fool:

to have plead out in 1993
to have sold gun kits (when his family should have)
to have operated his biz from home (goodness!)
to have (apparently) owned non-kosher NFA34 stuff
to have not encrypted his customer list
to have jeopardized .50BMG rifle ownership for all of us with his own general stupidity.

As I said, I've strong mixed feelings. I have no qualms with people exercising their 2nd Amendment rights in the purest possible sense, but I can ask--no, demand--that they do so with wisdom and forethought.

Stewart has seemed to have made his own defense quite problematic, and has conflicted out much of the normal assistance and support that would be expected in such a matter.

I can only hope that Mr. Stewart and his family KEEP THEIR MOUTHES SHUT and SEEK A COMPETENT/SYMPATHETIC DEFENSE ATTORNEY. His case should be fought on pure 2nd Amendment grounds, vs. on the facts (wherein he seems quite screwed).

The raid and arrest can serve as a stringent lesson to us all: THOU SHALT KEEP THY $HIT TIGHTLY WRAPPED.

If Stewart had done so, there likely wouldn't have been any raid at all--and if there had been nonetheless, it would have lead to nothing of real consequence.

And that's the point...

Nasty BATF raids are to be expected, and there is not much that can be done (systemically) about them. However, we gunowners are not required to be stupid
about our activities and thus play into Federal hands!

WISE UP, FOLKS!!!

Regarding the suggested untruthful reporting of .50BMG rifles as stolen, absolutely do NOT file such a report! Why commit a crime (and likely a felony) when you don't
have to? In nearly half the States, private transfers of firearms are not regulated and you can buy/sell without State permission or record. (Owners not in those 24 States could simply move to one, even temporarily.)

Any .50BMG owner in such a State has
available a perfectly plausible explanation to why he no longer owns that rifle. He could have placed an index card ad at the supermarket (this leaves no newspaper classified ad record) and sold off his rifle
to a stranger (who met him at some parking lot).
Or, he could have sold it at the local flea market or gun show. Any receipt made or kept would be at the discretion of the seller (who is not required to demand I.D. from the buyer).

Such is not only lawful, it's legal--and there's little the BATF could do about it. This is an example of what I mean by "wising up". Gunowners too often make the BATF's invidious and unconstitutional "job" too easy, and I'm tired of reading about it.
Why should any of us repeat the same stupid mistakes?

Wise up, folks.


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Hawkeye
Novice
posted 06-21-2000 22:01     Click Here to See the Profile for Hawkeye   Click Here to Email Hawkeye     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My, that last post was entirely too dispassionate, factual, and reasonable to have been posted on a forum! Thanks.

I'm concerned that this represents part of the "cutting of the herd" that will gradually erode our inherent rights as described (not granted!) by our constitution. First they split off the NFA folks, and the NRA cooperated (and I'm still a Benefactor member, so let's not start that fight). Next we saw a completely arbitrary and irrational method of banning certain "Saturday Night Special" pistols (based on their melting point, for Chrissake). Next Bush rolled over on black, semiautomatic rifles that looked funny, improperly described as Assault Weapons. Clearly .50 BMG will be the next target, although a couple of the #*&$@ bills would have managed to have banned an 1874 Sharps .50-90 buffalo rifle!

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simonov jr
Novice
posted 06-21-2000 22:55     Click Here to See the Profile for simonov jr   Click Here to Email simonov jr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good post and advice...

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Long Path
Novice
posted 06-22-2000 07:38     Click Here to See the Profile for Long Path   Click Here to Email Long Path     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's unfortunate that the discussion went awry elsewhere.


I would have to agree that the only crime Stewart's aparrently guilty of is criminal stupid.

I, too (as LawDog), am mildly skeptical, until I've heard both sides.

Stewart is not blameless, but he's stil the victim, as are we.

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Mad Dog
Moderator
posted 06-22-2000 09:05     Click Here to See the Profile for Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is becoming increasingly clear to me that we, as a class of people, are being both legislated and persecuted out of existance.

I will not go quietly into that long night.

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Howard D. Huggins
Novice
posted 06-23-2000 04:01     Click Here to See the Profile for Howard D. Huggins   Click Here to Email Howard D. Huggins     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those that haven't already heard, Bob Stewart is out of jail!!!!!! :-)))))) Go to: www.sierratimes.com for the latest!!!!!!
HOT DAMN!!!!! (sorry, moderator;-) )

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Mad Dog
Moderator
posted 06-23-2000 09:02     Click Here to See the Profile for Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's OK. That was worth a "Hot Damn!"

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Mrs. Mad Dog
Moderator
posted 06-23-2000 16:03     Click Here to See the Profile for Mrs. Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Mrs. Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The following are a few excerpts (and my own opinions) from:

Bob Stewart's First Day in Court
by Liz Andreasen
Posted: 06.22.00 on: http://www.sierratimes.com/arjj062200.htm


Mr. Tannis (the government attorney) lead off (his case) with the search warrant being executed on June 16th, and he placed significant weight upon a newspaper article run by the Arizona Republic where Mr. Stewart admitted his prior felony conviction in Utah.

I'm sorry, but this screams, "Come and get me!!!"
IMHO, it is really difficult to feel sorry for someone who is their own worst enemy, however...

Mr. Tannis continued his litany against Mr. Stewart, stating that "Due to Mr. Stewart's unacceptance of the current gun laws, his prior conviction of 6 years ago, and his STAUNCH SECOND AMMENDMENT BELIEFS, and his sale of the kits, with the kits being "inherently dangerous....because, "who know where the guns will end up?"

Second Amendment *BELIEFS*?
What does this say about Mr. Tannis and the fact that he is representing our government?
That the government sees the Second Amendment as nothing more than the belief system of militant radicals, and not the inherent RIGHT of the American people?
"Us" against "them"?

At this point, the court swore in ATF Special Agent Bettendorf as the only witness called to testify for the government.

When questioned further, Agent Bettendorf answered that he received his investigatory information from ATF Inspectors who do the background checks on individuals and through *surfing the Internet for gun sites* and through reading gun specific magazines and newspapers, such as ShotGun News.
Big brother is always watching...and waiting for an opportunity...

Haney (Stewart's defense attorney) then asked the agent, "Do the kits meet the definition of a firearm?" Bettendorf answered, "Yes"
Mr. Haney then followed with, "Is this definition under ATF regulations?
Bettendorf answered, "No, just under U. S. Code."

Details of the trial continued along this course which led the Judge to release Mr. Stewart.

I hope for the sake of the Second Amendment that Mr. Stewart wins his case, and maybe a very important lesson,
Keep your mouth shut if there is any chance that the information can (and will) be used against you in the court of law.


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Mrs. Mad Dog
Moderator
posted 06-26-2000 13:15     Click Here to See the Profile for Mrs. Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Mrs. Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stewart: "A bellwether case for the Second Amendment."
By J.J. Johnson - Posted: 06.25.00 http://www.sierratimes.com/arjj062500.htm


Robert Stewart

Maadi-Griffin

Meet America's newest hero. Robert Stewart, age 61 of Mesa Arizona was just another guy trying to make a living. But after an arrest and a week spent in three jails, his phone has been ringing off the hook. This was still the case during his weekend interview with Sierra Times.

Stewart was arrested last week when authorities had reason to believe he might be in possession of one or more firearms that he is prohibited from owning due to a previous (entrapment) conviction.

"It feels great to be back with my family!" Stewart said as his phone lines were melting with congratulations from Second Amendment supporters around the country. But to Stewart, this battle has just begun.

As first reported by Sierra Times.com, Federal Judge Lawrence Anderson granted Stewart a release on his own recognizance, and also allowed him to continue the Maadi Griffin enterprise - what's left of it. "They have already compromised our operations," he said, referring to the list of names, credit card records and addresses of the over 3000 people who have purchased a Maddi-Griffin .50 cal BMG kit over the past decade. Stewart estimated that material taken from his home is valued at over $250,000.

Stewart completely agreed with the legal analysis of Nancy Johnson, in that purchasers of the Maadi-Griffin Kits could soon come under federal scrutiny since the BATF has now stated that such kits "can be manufactured into an un-registered weapon."

"Everyone has the right to build a rifle on their own, but only one per year, and it cannot be sold or transferred." Stewart said in the interview. Over 150 customers have called the BATF and verified this information since Stewart's arrest. The BATF suggests that builders place a serial code on such rifles.

In places like Shotgun News, and Gunlists, people sell numerous machines guns, but no receivers are included with these these weapons. "The BATF allows people to buy these items legally. The only difference between legal and illegal is a $200 tax stamp," he said.

To date, Stewart is satisfied with his attorney, but welcomes any other legal counsel at this time to join in on what he calls, "A bellwether case for the Second Amendment." He noted that his counsel, Thomas Haney is a former Assistant U.S Attorney who masterfully tore the government apart during cross-examination. He praised Judge Anderson for the ruling but cited, "Even with the hundreds of faxes he received, I don't think his peers [fellow judges] will be with him on this."

Stewart said if this case can be won, "The BATF stands to lose a letter from their name." He was referring to the letter "F", which stands for firearms. "They should focus of things like Alcohol and Tobacco, and leave the Second Amendment alone." Stewart, a strong believer in the Second Amendment believes the support he has can launch his case to the Supreme Court. "The Good Lord has put us on this path. Hopefully, the courts can rule on this matter and avoid citizen disarmament."

Stewart compared the $200 tax on machine guns to a $200 tax on other rights. "What if they were to put a $200 tax on anyone wanting to go a church of their own, choosing?" Many gun proponents have compared a "license to carry" with a "license for free speach." Such rights are pre-existing and the government's only duty regarding such rights to guarantee> them, not limit, infringe or regulate them.

Back in the 1880's, West Texas legend, Judge Roy Bean assured the accused who came before his court that they would have their firearms back when they got out of jail. Stewart says, "Something has happened between then and now. They are trying to grab more power and take the rights of the people away."

He states emphatically that the government needs to understand The Sixth Article, Second Clause which states:"This Constitution... shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby." No State Legislature, judge, federal agency, law enforcement officer, President, or anyone has the right or the power to alter, change or interfere with the Supreme Law of the Land. Therefore, Stewart says, all gun laws, restrictions, regulations, controls, taxes, etc. are illegal. All National Firearms Act rules and regulations are illegal. Yes, ALL Federal and State gun laws and taxes of any kind are illegally conceived and illegally implemented. It is against the Constitution of the United States of America to enforce these illegal laws.

Robert Stewart says he will comply with the Judge's orders not to leave Maricopa County as he awaits his next court date of July 10th. On that day, the Judge will determine the authenticity of the BATF's claim - that the Maadi-Griffin kit is or is not a firearm.


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