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Author
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Topic: More Proof: ZYLON ARMOR RECALL
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Mad Dog Moderator
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posted 11-15-2002 22:56
I posted this in another thread, but it is so IMPORTANT, so DAMNING of Second Chance's upper management and the other Zylonistas, that I felt it merited a separate thread of its own.Here is some rather shocking stuff from an armor manufacturer, BSST, who had the stones to RECALL all of their Zylon based products, the info has been available since 07-20-2001. This is about the time that Toyobo published the PDF we have previously referenced. Note that BSST ACTUALLY WALKs THE WALK, "An open and in-depth information issue was always part of the BSST philosophy" Unlike the ethical midgets at Second Chance, Armor Holdings, Safariland, and numerous other American Manufacturers. BSST published the test results and reason for the recall. THEY DID THE RIGHT THING. ******************************************* http://www.bsstgmbh.de/BSSTV20/html/english/eS010702.htm An open and in-depth information issue was always part of the BSST philosophy. A body armor manufacturer is one link of the 'warranty chain', containing the fiber manufacturer, processing companies like weaving mills, garment manufacturers, dealers and of course the customer. BSST wants to comment on the occurences of the last days and weeks dealing with the subject "Zylon" and we think it is our duty to pass on the information and results to our customers. Facts and questions:
Due to the requests dealing with the warranty issue, Toyobo started accelerated aging tests with the ZylonŽ fiber. The test results can be reviewed in the article, dated 07-18-2001. Facts Without any valuation of the test results, the following facts can be recorded: After 10 days at 80°C and 80% relative humidity, the strength loss of the ZylonŽ fiber is 20% After 10 days at 60°C and 80% relative humidity, the strength loss of the ZylonŽ fiber is 10% After 10 days at 40°C and 80% relative humidity, almost no strength loss of the ZylonŽ fiber was recorded The ZylonŽ fiber is sensitive to certain environmental conditions and according to Toyobo, the strenght loss is a result of hydrolysis, this means reaction of the fiber with water. Based on the two and a half years history with the ZylonŽ fiber, Toyobo estimates a strength loss of less than 5% for 10 years at room temperature. As a result, it is impossible for Toyobo to guarantee 10 years. Questions With this theoretical backround knowledge the following questions arise, dealing with the practical use of ZylonŽ fiber for body armor: What does 20%, 10%, 5% or even 1% strenght loss of the fiber means for the ballistic performance (e.g. V50 value) of body armor ? Is it possible to reach or even exceed the test conditions mentioned above, during the daily use of the body armor ? Storage of body armor for 10 years at room temperature does not meet reality. What will be the strength loss for 10 years at real operational conditions ? Is the use of ZylonŽ fiber for body armor justifiable, when it is impossible for the fiber manufacturer to make the warranty, which is demanded by the technical guideline? Consequences
We rated body armor with ballistic packages made of ZylonŽ as the revolution in ballistic body protection. Light, thin, flexible but nevertheless outstanding ballistic performance. But at the moment it looks like ZylonŽ, corresponding to the current stage of technical development, can not meet the demands. The requirements for ballistic body protection are extremly high and leave no room for compromises. As a result of the above mentioned questions, BSST takes the necessary steps: BSST has access to V50 test results, which show direct relation between strength loss and decrease of ballistic performance. BSST agrees that the test conditions can be reached during daily use of body armor, even for a limited period of time. BSST valuates the exclusive storage of body armor at room temperature as not realistic. Therefore a definitive statement concerning the real strength loss for 10 years is not possible. Since the fiber manufacturer makes no warranty, it would be irresponsible for BSST to make any appropriate warranty. Conclusion Statements about the long-term characteristics of ZylonŽ fiber are based on theoretical considerations and can not be confirmed or disproved due to missing practical values. As a result, BSST will not use ZylonŽ fiber of the current stage of development for ballistic packages of body armor. BSST management, Nellingen 07-20-2001 ***************************************** DSM put on hold the market introduction of ZylonŽ-UD http://www.bsstgmbh.de/BSSTV20/html/english/eS010701.htm The worldwide only manufacturer of ZylonŽ-UD (also known as ZylonŽ Shield), has stopped the production and distribution of ZylonŽ-UD. Companies, processing this product, were told to take back body armor produced up to now. In order to evaluate the long-term characteristics of materials, so called aging tests are performed. During this tests, the material is exposed to increased temperature and humidity conditions, for a certain time period. In the scope of this tests, DSM got serious indications of accelerated aging of ZylonŽ-UD, which become apparent by a significant loss of strength. According to DSM, the use of ZylonŽ-UD in bullet resistant vests may not be justified, because the required warranty can not be granted. DSM took the necessary steps and put on hold the market introduction of ZylonŽ-UD. If this fast loss of strength also applies to ZylonŽ fabric, is currently subject of intensive tests. Result of the accelerated aging test of ZYLON AS (Reference: Toyobo) According to Toyobo, manufacturer of the ZylonŽ fiber, the DSM test results can not be confirmed. It is assumed, that the effect is caused by ZylonŽ-UD and not by the ZylonŽ fiber itself. The figure shows the results of the accelerated aging test of the ZylonŽ fiber. During a time period of 100 days (horizontal axis), the change of strength (vertical axis) was determined and plotted into the figure as measuring data. 80% relative humidity and 3 different temperatures were chosen for the test. The lower line shows the course at 80°C and after 10 days the loss of strength is about 20%. The line above shows the course at 60°C and after 10 days the loss of strength is about 10%. At 40°C, almost no loss of strength was recorded during the period of the test. As a result of this tests, the actual loss of strength under realistic conditions can only be estimated. Based on the two and a half years history in the production of ZylonŽ fiber, Toyobo is able to estimate less than 5% strength loss for 10 years at room temperature. According to Toyobo, it is not possible for them to guarantee 10 years (demanded by the german technical guideline for body armor, dated October 2000) based on the result.
Recall As a result, the ballistic packages Definite-1 and Definite-2 are no longer available. In the scope of the recall, customers already wearing BSST body armor, containing one of this ballistic packages are informed at the moment.
We will keep you informed. ************************************* Decrease in performance of ZylonŽ greater than expected http://www.bsstgmbh.de/BSSTV20/html/english/eS011102.htm The latest results of the aging test with ZylonŽ are causing great concern. Toyobo, the producer of the ZylonŽ fiber just released an update on the progress of their aging test. After a test period of 150 days at 40°C and 80% relativ humidity, the ZylonŽ fiber shows a loss in performance of more than 15%. That the decrease in performance of the ZylonŽ fiber is greater than expected at the beginning of the aging test, was already obvious in our report, dated 08-29-01 (German language only). But back than it was assumed, that the decrease in performance follows a straight line the logarithmic plot. The graph on the right shows very impressiv, that the drop in performance does not follow the straight line, this means the consequences of the accelerated aging of the ZylonŽ fiber are worse than theoretically expected. The effect is still unsolved According to Toyobo, the mechanism that causes the drop in performance is not clear at this time. Customers of Toyobo should take this information into account when designing a product made of ZylonŽ, when this product is expected to be used in such conditions for a long time. ZylonŽ in body armor Environmental conditions and the use of ZylonŽ in body armor was an issue in our report, dated 08-29-01 (German language only). By the way, on the updated website of Toyobo, body armor is no longer listed as an field of application for ZylonŽ. Anyway, the decision of the BSST management not to use ZylonŽ in ballistic packages any more, was confirmed again. Results of the aging test with ZylonŽ (Source: Toyobo) Date: 28. November 2001
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Mad Dog Moderator
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posted 11-15-2002 23:40
MORE damning data on Zylon, with specific details of dramatically reduced ballistic protection: http://www.bsstgmbh.de/BSSTV20/html/english/eS011001.htm October 1, 2001 Since DSM High Performance Fibers put the market introduction of their product ZylonŽ UD-SB10 on hold, a large series of aging tests were carried out, in order to find out the mechanism, which is responsible for the decrease in performance. Among other things, ZylonŽ UD-SB10 at 70°C and uncontrolled humidity, as well as ZylonŽ fabric 550 dTex at 70°C and 63% relative humidity were tested. The graph shows the results of the v50 test (definition of the term v50). The values after aging were put into relation to the reference v50 value, obtained from the source material. [THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART] For the measurement of the v50 values, the materials were shot at ambient temperature, using 9mm parabellum ammunition. The decrease in ballistic performance is noticeable. After 5 weeks under aging conditions, the v50 value of ZylonŽ fabric is reduced more than 20%, compared to the "fresh" material. ZylonŽ UD shows the same loss in performance after about 8 weeks of aging. All aging tests were done at the "Polymers Degradation Laboratory" at DSM Research. Ballistic v50 tests were carried out at the ballistic test range at DSM High Performance Fibers. [Edited to include date stamp from original publication-Mad Dog] [This message has been edited by Mad Dog (edited 11-16-2002).] IP: Logged |
Mad Dog Moderator
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posted 11-15-2002 23:46
Zylon UD as referred to above is essentially the same as the Z-Shield/Zyloshield technology developed or copied by Honeywell/Spectra. It is a laminate material consisting of directional Zylon fiber bonded to plastic sheets.The laminate took a whole three weeks longer (Snort! Guffaw!!) than the plain Zylon fabric to degrade 20% in V50 strength.  IP: Logged |
Mad Dog Moderator
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posted 11-15-2002 23:52
Also please note that I have coined a new term "Zylonistas" in the first post above, to identify the culprits.IP: Logged |
Mad Dog Moderator
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posted 11-16-2002 00:25
Thanks to those very responsible people at BSST, here are some bullet dates: [reverse chron. order]11-30-2001 Decrease in performance of ZylonŽ greater than expected The latest results of the aging test with ZylonŽ are causing great concern. Toyobo, the producer of the ZylonŽ fiber just released an update on the progress of their aging test. 10-02-2001 New ballistic data on ZylonŽ-UD and ZylonŽ fabric. Concerning the aging issue of ZylonŽ, DSM High Performance Fibers provided us with new ballistic data on ZylonŽ-UD and ZylonŽ fabric 07-20-2001 Company statement After information became public concerning possible safety defects of body armor containing ZylonŽ-UD or ZylonŽ fabric, BSST decided to recall already delivered vests as a precaution. 07-19-2001 Recall After the recall of BSST body armor models Definite-1 and Definite-2, containing ZylonŽ-UD, the model iXZ, made of ZylonŽ fabric, were also recalled. 07-18-2001 DSM put on hold the market introduction of ZylonŽ-UD The worldwide sole manufacturer of ZylonŽ-UD (also known as ZylonŽ Shield), has stopped the production and distribution of ZylonŽ-UD 07-09-2001 Technical problems with ZylonŽ We were informed by our fiber supplier, that technical problems with the new ZylonŽ fiber occured. As a result, all BSST ballistic packages which contain ZylonŽ fibers are not available at the moment. *************************************** In short, TOYOBO began notifiying their users by early July of 2001 that there were severe aging and degradation problems with Zylon. BSST acknowledged this publicly on JULY 9, 2001 Precautionary recalls began by BSST on JULY 19, 2001. ONLY TEN DAYS LATER! By October 2, BSST showed that V50 losses due to degradation from huimidity were signifigant, and by November 30 had shown conclusively that the losses were logarithmic, rather than linear. In other words, very bad indeed. Is it even imaginable that TOYOBO forgot to inform their largest American OEM users of these problems? Is it even imaginable that men like Second Chance's Richard Davis and Ed Bachner (VP of technology)didn't grasp the signifigance of the data that Toyobo almost certainly presented to them in July of 2001? SO WHY ARE THEY STILL MARKETING ZYLON VESTS MORE THAN A YEAR LATER????? And another thing... Why won't they answer our phone calls?? Why won't they respond to our emails?? Denial. Its not just a river in Egypt anymore. Now, its the preferred beverage of Zylonistas everywhere.
[This message has been edited by Mad Dog (edited 11-17-2002).] IP: Logged |
bryan1656 Member
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posted 11-16-2002 00:56
again...any thought to sending an article about this to some trade pubs, or anything? IP: Logged |
Mad Dog Moderator
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posted 11-16-2002 02:42
Two days ago, I submitted an article to a publication specializing in Tactical stuff. For confidentiality reasons, I am at liberty to state no more on that subject at this time.In the meantime, send links for this to EVERYONE on your mail lists! Also, write to Richard Davis. Write to your congresscritter. Write to your police dept. Tell a friend.
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Mr. AG Member
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posted 11-16-2002 22:43
Mad Dog, Thanks from all of us for your efforts in this arena. I AM telling everyone I know about this issue. BTW, I am in law enforcement.[This message has been edited by Mr. AG (edited 11-16-2002).] IP: Logged |
Mad Dog Moderator
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posted 11-17-2002 00:43
I have collected a mountain of evidence against the Zylonistas. Peace Officers lives are being recklessly endangered. The Zylonistas seem to be waiting for someone to die rather than recall the Zylon armor. Time is running out on the odds against some policeman, somewhere, getting shot while wearing a compromised vest. Meanwhile, the armor companies are still making MILLIONS of dollars on the overpriced garbage they are selling to YOU, the policeman. This is profiteering of the most crass and heartless sort, tantamount to Ford continuing to produce Pintos long after they knew that they were terribly unsafe.What will it take for someone, somewhere in law enforcement or the judicial arena to instigate a Grand Jury investigation into the fraud being perpetrated by the armor companies? Won't someone out there please step up to the plate and at least file a class action suit against the Zylonistas?
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St. Teryl Moderator
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posted 02-27-2003 11:19
There are a lot of e-mails being exchanged between us and many concerned LE agencies right now. For the benefit of those who want to have all of the information readily available for study and comparison, I have brought the Zylon threads back to the top.IP: Logged |
St. Teryl Moderator
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posted 06-26-2003 12:44
As a courtesy for those who are investigating the degradation issues surrounding Zylon, and the recent Zylon vest failure, I am bringing this back to the top.IP: Logged |
Mad Dog Moderator
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posted 11-27-2003 22:25
This data is a little over a year old, but I am bringing it back to the top for some late arrivals who emailed with questions about Zylon laminate vests and hybrids (Armor Holdings, ABA, Safariland, Protective Apparel, etc) as opposed to woven fabric as Second Chance and Point Blank/ PACA uses.Evidently, the ones using the laminates are still claiming "it isn't a fiber problem, it's a construction problem". Unfortunately for Toyobo, they seem to endorsing this mindset. Big mistake. As you can see, extensive testing in Europe has already shown that the laminates tested take a dump too, just a little slower than the woven material. IP: Logged |
Mad Dog Moderator
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posted 11-27-2003 22:28
It should also be noted that neither Toyobo or Armor Holdings has yet produced any laboratory V50 data to refute the findings of DSM, BSST and Mehler Vario.IP: Logged |
JR Novice
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posted 12-01-2003 15:25
Mad Dog, I've been reading the forums for many months now and was a former wearer of a SC zylon vest. Have you heard of the new lawsuit filed here in San Diego County against SC?IP: Logged |
JR Novice
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posted 12-01-2003 15:51
Disregard, saw the answer on a different thread.IP: Logged |
NoBS Member
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posted 12-30-2003 07:31
Recently the NIJ requested detailed sales information from ALL Zylon vest manufacturers. They have been advised to immediately identify and supply the names of ALL end-users of EVERY vest sold that contained any amount of Zylon fiber, and to provide a comprehensive report to the NIJ by the end of 2003.Could this be the building of a government mandated recall list? Or will this information possibily be used to assist the government in an effort to ballistically "spot check" degradation levels of worn armor? Either way, before LEO's can be helped, they first need to be identified. And it appears this process is finally beginning. IP: Logged |
Bubble Head Member
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posted 01-05-2004 05:30
As a police officer this whole issue pisses me off. Several months ago, along with Maddog help thru this forum I was able to get my department to replace 3 year old SC Ulitmas with US Armor Enforcers in level IIIA. The way was LIABILITY and LAWSUITS. I probably won't get promoted from the toes I stepped on hell I smashed some but I can sleep at night. Once again thanks goes to MD Labs and everything they have done or all of us.------------------ The only place you will find success without hard work is in the dictionary IP: Logged | |